Kellie Maloney: “I want the gay community to know I’ve grown as a person”
A lifelong boxing manager who has since become one of the most high profile transgender people in the UK, Kellie Maloney has had a bumpy ride adjusting to her new role as an LGBT figurehead. While there have been successes – she handled a stint in the Celebrity Big Brother house with dignity intact, giving the nation a much-needed look at a transgender person just being themselves on prime time telly – there have been missteps too: she faced a big backlash last year for announcing that she didn’t think same-sex couples should be allowed to have children.
Now, in a no-holds barred interview with James Ingham ahead of her appearance at the RUComingOut Summer Party tonight, Kellie talks about her transition, the evolution of her views on the LGBT community, and how she’s tackling the dating scene as a transgender woman.
When did you first know you were in the wrong body?
I knew I felt different from my brothers from the age of about three. I would always dream I was a young girl when I was growing up. I would also sometimes pretend and fantasise I was a little girl, but it was mainly physical dreams.
It wasn’t until I read an article on April Ashley in the 60s, who was an icon in the trans community, that I really knew. She was one of the first people in this country to become trans and lost everything.
Do you regret not transitioning sooner?
I tried to suppress it as most of us do. If you had given me a pill to be Frank and be happy as a man I would have done, like 99% of transexuals would at some point. I was destroying everything around me, my friends, my family and myself. I wouldn’t take that pill now though because I am content and happy with myself for the first time.
I do regret not being honest earlier in my life but then I think if I was honest I would never have the three daughters I have and an amazing family around me. A lot of other trans [people] don’t have the family support I have which has been so important to me. If I had had a son maybe it wouldn’t have been as easy. Who knows? Having three daughters may have been a godsend. To transition without having a family would have been a very lonely life I think.
I couldn’t come out while my dad was alive. I don’t think he would have understood it but I do think he would have accepted it. He mellowed so much as he got older but when he was dying in 2009 I thought about it but I still didn’t tell him. I would rather have told him when he was well and healthy. I wouldn’t want to tell him on his death bed for fear of pushing him over the edge.
It must have been easier now due to society being more accepting?
Completely. I have a friend who transitioned in the 70s and she’s been scarred for life by that. She is still scared to go out on her own to some places. She was hounded, she lost her job, she can’t get that out of her head.
Do people still call you Frank by mistake?
Yes. My mum might slip up every now and again but she is 82. Some people still refer to me as ‘he’ when they are talking but I don’t get upset by that.
Some of the more militant transexuals get upset about that, but the way I look at it is: for 62 years of my life I was a male. The majority of people have known me as Frank Maloney so I don’t get upset at those. It’s the people that didn’t know me as Frank that I get upset about. People like James Jordan from Celebrity Big Brother. He always made a point of referring me as Frank or him and then saying sorry, but he knew what he was doing. That’s why I instantly took a dislike to him. That does upset me but I don’t bite like I did then.
How was it difficult dealing with your transition on live TV during CBB?
When I went into Big Brother it had only just been public knowledge so everything was trial and error. Was it right to go into the house then? Probably not, but by the time I was voted out I had changed. If I had gone in to the house the same person as I was when I came out if would have been a total different story. I basically transitioned in front of 2.5 million people.
Do your daughters call you Kellie or dad?
They call me dad which we both agreed on. We didn’t argue about that at all because I am their dad. The girls got some abuse from people saying they were being disrespectful to me by calling me dad. I felt like I had to respond to that because they aren’t being disrespectful, I am their dad, and I always will be, I’m not their mum. Newspapers sometimes write mother-of-three and I think I’m not a mum-of-three, I’m still a father-of-three. They have a mother.
Have you had much abuse in the street?
I had a stag group start at me at 6am in the airport. One of them shouted, ‘Frank what’s it like to cut your goolies off?’ I smiled and carried on walking, but my 14-year-old daughter turned round and said: ‘Grow up you arrogant arseholes.’ That’s how protective my family are of me. I’ve had little things like that but not much more. I just laugh at their stupidity and ignorance because they remind me of what Frank Maloney might have said because you just don’t understand the world.
Now you have transitioned do you still fancy women?
Do I look at women and find them attractive now? No, I don’t. I look at them with admiration. I like their hair, make-up or clothes. My problem is I still judge people as Frank Maloney. Appearance and presentation meant a lot to him and they do to me.
I do find men attractive. There’s a football manager who I find very attractive but I won’t say which one as he will get a lot of stick on the terraces. There’s also a few actors I fancy. I find Tom Selleck from Blue Blood attractive. If I had to choose a man he would be my ideal.
Are you looking for love?
I’m looking for companionship more than love. Before I can get to love I need to trust in a relationship. Because I’m in the public eye and have been through what I have been through I bring a lot of baggage to the table. I sometimes wonder if a normal heterosexual male will be able to deal with that baggage. Would he question his own sexuality?
As far as I’m concerned I’m a fully functioning woman. But if I go to bed with a man does that make me a straight woman or does it make me gay? If I go to bed with a woman does that make me straight or a lesbian?
That must be incredibly hard to get your head round?
I tried to resolve it with my wife and she said she couldn’t live with me as a woman because she wasn’t a lesbian and that actually helped me. It was sad to hear because I still love my wife but now I know there’s no relationship there. We have friendship, but no relationship. She has a new partner and I’m not friends with him and I’m not sure if I ever will be. I wish them well and I want her to be happy.
Are you currently dating?
I have looked at a few dating website. I have a group of trans girlfriends who are desperately trying to set me up. I have been on a few dinner dates. I went on dates from a transexual website before people knew about me, but they didn’t want me to go through the full transition which I didn’t like. The one thing I have learned from this world is there is so many different fetishes, labels and sexual appetites.
Do you see yourself in a long-term relationship again?
I hope so. Yes, if the trust was there.
You have spoken out about being labelled a transexual. Does it annoy you?
It doesn’t annoy me, I just feel like a woman. Whether that is a straight woman or lesbian woman I want to be a woman. I don’t need to be labelled. I just want to be respected and treated as a human being. I think there’s a lot of people from the trans community that feel that way.
I think it should be our decision to decide if we tell people. The law has changed so you don’t need to tell people now. But if you get married and they find out in the first three years they can divorce you which I think is wrong – we should all be treated the same. Being trans you have to live a very cautious life style. It is different for me as I’m a public figure but for those who have gone under the radar it is scary to tell someone out of fear they will leave you.
Are you scared now?
There are certain pubs I won’t go into or streets I wouldn’t walk down that Frank would.
Was there any feeling of loss or mourning?
No not at all. It was just relief. I started losing Frank as soon as I told my wife and by then Frank had faded away. Kellie was the stronger personality. I miss certain things as Frank. I’ve lost very close friends who can’t get their head around it. But I’ve made new friends so it balances out. Its strange the friends I thought I’d lose I’ve kept and the ones I thought I’d keep I’ve lost.
It’s funny because my old male friends send me off with their wives now. One friend said to me: I’ve lost a friend called Frank but my wife has gained a friend called Kellie and it is like that sometimes. I still like sport and I can still talk to the men but I do tend to gravitate to the females now. I don’t miss the male testosterone. There might be a bit more bitchiness with the girls, but I can handle that.
You have previously said you don’t feel like a part of the LGBT community. Do you still feel like that?
I am very supportive of the LGBT community. I just don’t think trans is just about sexuality. With the others it’s gay, lesbian or bi but I think trans could be any sexuality until we choose it. It depends how we feel as gay, or straight. It’s nothing personal against LGBT. I do think trans can learn so much from the gay community. We are having to go through a lot of what they went through years ago.
I think it is important to help people, and I understand some people need to be labelled to feel safe. I guess I am older and feel like I don’t need to be labelled. Having said that I couldn’t have got to where I’m at without my help group TG Pals. I still go more as a mentor now. I spend a lot of time with a lot of female-to-male transexuals who are only 14 or so. I understand people need things like that but I want to get to a place when one day you don’t need something like that. Where we are all treated the same as human beings.
Frank’s opinions seem very different from Kellie’s. Do you regret anything you’ve said in the past?
I have said lots of things which have discriminated against people and I regret them. I’ve had trans friends, one very close to me who took their own life because her family would not accept she was trans. We were all banned from the funeral because they didn’t want people to know, which I think is mortifying. It has changed my views on how I look at life. What I have realised is, love is love and it knows no boundaries which I couldn’t understand before. I can be honest, my head is cleared and I am a lot more honest and open now, and that’s why I could’t be a UKIP member anymore because they view things differently.
Have your experiences over the past year helped to change your views on same-sex parenting? You previously said that you were against the idea.
Yes. A lot of my comments previously were almost made in self-defence, but since coming out I have got to meet a lot of different people in all walks of life who have changed my opinions. I’ve met same-sex parents and in fact are good friends with a couple whose children are more balanced than a lot of children in heterosexual relationships. I have nothing against same-sex parents and as far as marriage is concerned I’ve also realised love knows no boundary. You can’t help or choose who you fall in love with. My opinions have changed because I’m no longer hiding, lying or trying to be someone I’m not.
So were Frank’s views ignorance or self-preservation?
Frank made the point never to mix with anyone who wasn’t a caveman or had strong heterosexual views. I hold my hands up and admit it was stupidity, ignorance and lack of education. And that’s one of the reasons I think education at a very early age is essential. And that’s another reason I want to support RUComingOut because they are wanting to put resource books into schools to educate on diversity.
Have any of those comments come back to haunt you?
I have publicly apologised for all the past comments I’ve made and stated how wrong I was. On the whole I have been overwhelmed by how warm the LGBT community have been at welcoming me but I still find a lot of people in the gay community are still very bitter about my comments. I understand what I said is wrong but I have apologised. Unfortunately I can’t take them back but I think life is about forgiving people for their mistakes, growing and moving on. I like to work in the gay community to show I have grown as a person. Those comments were from Frank, they were wrong, I admit to that but they weren’t and aren’t the viewpoint of Kellie.
This is another reason I wanted to support RUComingOut. It’s not just a case of coming out sexually it is a case of coming out and telling the world who you really are and what you stand for.
Words by JAMES INGHAM – @TheJamesIngham
Kellie Maloney is a guest speaker at the RUComingOut Summer Party tonight (Thursday July 23). Her autobiography Frankly Kellie: Becoming A Woman In A Man’s World is out now.
More RUComingOut summer party interviews: