Podcasters Matthew and Ryan Mackinnon share their journey as gay dads this World Adoption Day: ‘A lot of what you read online isn’t true’ (EXCLUSIVE)

In light of World Adoption Day (9 November), content creators Matthew and Ryan Mackinnon are sharing their adoption journey to raise awareness and break taboos around same-sex adoption.

Through their podcast Daddies Overnight, the husbands highlight the importance of “mythbusting” and visibility for LGBTQ+ parents. In England in 2023, one in five adoptive couples were gay, according to the Department for Education and analysed by New Family Social.

Speaking exclusively to Attitude, the Mackinnons reveal that adopting as gay parents isn’t as daunting as it’s made out to be, discuss the realities of couple disagreements, and share what they’re most looking forward to with their adopted son.

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What made you decide you were ready to start a family?

Matthew: I think for us, basically, as soon as we met each other and had our first date 10 years ago.

Ryan: I asked Matthew, “Do you want kids?” Because I think as a same-sex couple, it’s a question you do have to ask. It’s not for everyone, but I’ve always wanted children, so I just needed to know that Matthew wanted children too.

Matthew: When we were at Disneyland a few years ago we were just surrounded by kids and families, and something just clicked. I think it was like the Disney magic when we were there – and we were like, “I feel like we’re at the point now where we could have kids.”

Ryan: Because it’s not like a straightforward process – one of us can’t get pregnant – you kind of plan and prep a little bit more. And maybe we knew the journey might take a bit longer. So we thought, okay, maybe it’s time to start thinking about it more seriously.

Growing up as young gay men, did you ever see yourselves becoming dads?

Matthew: Yeah, 100%. I feel like, for me, I’m quite lucky that I’ve got quite a solid family unit, and I always wanted to replicate that.

Ryan: And then, for me I come from damaged goods. I was in the foster system myself – so I’ve always kind of thought about adoption as one of the paths I would explore.

Why was adoption the right choice for you, rather than surrogacy?

Matthew: Yeah, I think it’s something we talk about a lot on the podcast – it’s one of the questions we get asked a lot. For us, we did explore other options, because there are so many myths about adoption that kind of put people off. We basically did our own myth-busting by chatting straight with an adoption agency.

Ryan: A lot of what you read online isn’t true – like, if you’re single, you can’t adopt, or if you don’t have a garden, or don’t own a house, or even if you’re a same-sex couple – but none of that’s true. It’s all outdated or false information.

Matthew: We did look down the surrogacy route, something about adoption just really clicked, it was like when we bought a house, when you walk in you get that gut feeling, something just clicked – it felt like the right path for us.

And talk to me about the process. How does adoption work for a same-sex couple?

Ryan: It works the same as for any other couple.

Matthew: It is really good. There’s no discrimination; you’re not treated any differently. I think that’s a relief for a lot of people. I just know lots of other gay couples or trans people who’ve gone through it, and a lot of people worry they’ll be singled out for who they are – but that’s not the case at all. There’s a lot of time with social workers. For us, because we didn’t have any direct kids in our family, we had to volunteer at a nursery, which we didn’t know about – just to show that we could care for children that weren’t ours.

Ryan: It was like work experience, which was completely new to us. We had to do first aid training as well. There are a lot of tick boxes, but at the same time, they’re trusting you with a child – so there is a lot more measurements that go into it than birthing a child…you can imagine just those chats, social workers, and then a few training calls.

Matthew: But it does go quick and it’s so worth it in the end.

Ryan: You also learn a lot about yourself, the good and the bad, I think for me, being in the foster care system, I thought it might have held us back from adopting. But after chatting with our social worker, they actually said it was a strength – because it means I can empathise with our little one.

Do you think adoption still has a stigma?

Ryan: I think it does, because when people think of social workers, they often think this bad person who destroys families – but that’s obviously not the case. It’s a really tough job to have, and adoption is there because there are so many kids who need a loving home. I think the reputation adoption has and a lot of taboo subjects sometimes means people are put off having families. It stops a lot of people from starting families because they just think it’s not a path they can explore.

Matthew: That’s why, especially with the podcast, we wanted to shine a light on it – because no one really talks about it online. It’s such a personal journey that a lot of people probably don’t feel comfortable sharing. And because we’re so open and want to be advocates for adoption, we just wanted to show that it is a path for a lot of people. Even before the podcast – when we were just sharing our story on social media for about a year and a half – and you could really tell from the comments and the way people interacted that it changed a lot of people’s perceptions.

When you found out you were going to be dads, describe that moment.

Matthew: We actually found out through a database that helps you get matched with a child.

Ryan: If there aren’t many adopters in a certain area, that child’s profile is shared more widely so they can look for matches elsewhere.

Matthew: It helps speed up the process. We found our child online. We put in our application because we just felt like he was the right fit for us.

Ryan: It was on a Friday night – we were having a game night with some friends. We never usually check the database on a Friday because you just get really into it. Normally, I’d say, “Let’s check on Wednesday and then leave it for this week,” because otherwise you get so fixated, and it’s quite emotionally draining seeing so many children – it’s a lot to handle… But when we saw his profile and read about him, we both just had that feeling.

Matthew: It was so magical.

So once you find a child, what happens next?

Ryan: It’s not like there’s a tick box system for matching a child.

Matthew: It’s more about whether your profile matches theirs and needs align with theirs.

Ryan: Their social worker still has to approve you and make sure you are the right fit, but then you have like chemistry meeting when you meet the little one so there’s so much more that goes into it.

Matthew: It still takes around three to four months before the child comes home.

What was the biggest surprise you faced during the adoption process?

Ryan: I think you really have to be really open.

Matthew: There’s no hiding anything about yourself.

Ryan: I didn’t fully realise the emotional impact. Before we found our little boy, we had shown interest in a few other children and connected with different families, but then you start dealing with the emotional trauma. Which is really, really hard. As long as you have a good community and good support, it’s made us open our eyes.

Matthew: But the journey is still so up and down. You get very emotional because you’re starting a family and about to have kids…

Ryan: …There are so many people around us who are adopted or have adopted family members.

Matthew: When you start talking openly, a lot of people come forward to share their journeys too.

What are the biggest must haves for a father to be?

Ryan: You have to be open and remember that the child always comes first.

Matthew: The child comes before you in a lot of this, for example if you’re matched with a child and then the match falls through, it’s all about and what’s best for them… There isn’t actually any challenges as a gay couple.

Ryan: When you sign up you have to declare you’re not homophobic, racist, discriminative to anyone or any child and I think it’s vice versa that way. But in society, of course, there are still moments – like at school, when someone says, “Where’s your mum and dad?” People just assume every kid has a mum and dad.

Matthew: But within adoption, it’s very equal, no matter who you are or where you come from, it’s like a myth almost that needs to be busted.

Was there a moment you thought, “I can’t do this?”

Matthew: There has been wobbles throughout some of it, because you think “Oh my God… our lives are going to change,” and we’ve asked for it! But I feel that it’s just going back to the core and just knowing that we do want to become dads, then if everything was easy and not scary, then it would be boring.

Ryan: And I do feel like the hardest thing was probably the wait to be matched and you get “nos” and knock backs, you start doubting yourself: “Am I actually going to be a dad?” Like if I’m not going to be a dad, I can’t be a family. It’s kind of like asking yourself, “Am I not good enough?” because you keep hearing ‘no’ along the way. So, there’s a lot of self-doubt. But then, when you get a match, you think, “Now I know – he’s meant for us.”

What advice would you give to others going through that?

Ryan: I think honest conversations… we’ve had a lot of conversations online, on the podcasts as well, and the comments that have come back have actually made us think, “Oh, everyone has this feeling. It’s a normal feeling.”

Matthew: Yeah, and I feel like for anyone going through it and struggling with that feeling, it’s more about just remembering not to doubt yourself and remembering why you want to do this and why you want to be a parent. And if that reason is because you have so much love to give, I feel like you should have the confidence to really feel empowered.

Tell me about your little boy.

Matthew: He is just such a happy, gorgeous little boy, and I think we’re just so excited to be able to meet him and share what we can give him, just to give him such a good, happy childhood.

Ryan: We’ve been excited just to see life through his eyes. We’re blessed to have a really nice life, so I feel very excited to just be able to go to the park, get ice cream, and experience life from his perspective for the first time, I suppose.

How did you know he was “the one”?

Matthew: I think it’s always like… why do you feel it? Honestly, it’s the weirdest cliche, but you get such a gut feeling. For us, when we were reading about him, looking at photos, and learning about his quirks from his foster carer, it was just this really weird gut feeling – you’re like, “Wow, I feel like this is our son.” It’s the most insane, surreal feeling.

Did you ever disagree during the process?

Ryan: It definitely has to be done together.

Matthew: Yeah, I feel like it’ll feel right when you’re both in the right mindset for it, because I think there were other children we had seen, and one of us really liked them or showed interest, and vice versa, but one of us just didn’t have that feeling or that connection.

Ryan: Because it is a joint decision – you’re both going to be parents – it has to be 100% on both sides. Otherwise, I think you start seeing cracks form in the relationship. So both have to be 100%, and that’s hard sometimes. But I think honest conversations about what you want.

Matthew: Making sure there’s so much communication, is why we’ve done so well in the process too.

Ryan: I think there were a few disagreements, but ones we could handle. Obviously, you’d love to give every child a home, but you’ve got to be really realistic about your support group – can your friends and family help? And what can you actually manage, especially if you’ve never had kids… You have to be conscious of what you can and can’t handle.

Matthew: And then it’s also thinking about, if our parents are looking after the child, what can they handle?

Ryan: Can they handle siblings…

Matthew: I was really open to having twins, and the other was like, “Oh, I can’t handle two at once.” And you have to work through that, because you’ve gone through this massive process… that was one of the big things we had to talk through… if both of you aren’t fully on board, you really can’t move forward.

Out of any of your creator friends or celebrities, who would you trust as your child’s godmother?

Matthew: I think our friend Daisy Woods, who runs Muddle Through Mummy, that’s her online content handle. She’s been a really great support.

Ryan: She’s been our rock, she’s got children herself, and I feel like she’s a pretty good mum, so she’s been there for us through the whole journey.

How important is the support group through the adoption process?

Ryan: They always say, “It takes a village to raise a child,” and having people around you is so important because it’s such a big life change, and having people to talk to is important.

Matthew: It’s almost like being able to deflate in front of people, to be vulnerable and just get those emotions out. I feel like it’s so helpful to have people there – it’s such an important thing.

Would you consider adopting again?

Both: We’ve always wanted two, and I think we’ll definitely leave the adoption door open for the future. We’ll see how we go.

Is surrogacy something you might consider in the future?

Matthew: I don’t think it’s the right path for us at the time. If it changed more in the UK and there was more protection, I feel like it could be an option.

What episode of your new podcast are you most excited for listeners to hear?

Matthew: I think the episode about transitions… basically when we bring him home. I think when we get to that point, it’s going to be a really good conversation to talk about it. I’ve never seen anyone share that sort of experience, and I feel like the podcast is such a nice way to chat about it and give people insight and open people’s eyes into that part of the adoption journey, especially the moment when you physically bring the child home. We’re really excited to be able to share our experience of that.

Ryan: For me, I think it will be the transition between the last episodes we will film before picking up our son and maybe the first week when he’s actually home with us, to see how we experienced that first week.